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condition very soon. in fact they are meeting with doctors now. >> earlier this afternoon investigators were seen collecting evidence from the back yard where gentleman shard was found hiding in a boat. massachusetts state police released this helicopter photos this afternoon from the scene last night. they were taken from above and helped them to know that someone was in that boat, someone who was alive. meantime, today in an interview with russian state television, the mother of dzhokhar and his brotherer tamerlan is claiming that his sons were framed. >> in our house, nobody talked about the terrorism pep when they son tamerlan really was -- got involved in the religion, you know religion politics five years ago. he was counseled by fbi for three, five years. they knew what they son was

doing. they knew what actions and what device on internet he was going -- >> joining us now pete williams, nbc news analyst an former deputy of counter terrorism, nbc news terrorism analyst, roger. let's start with what we're waiting for immediately, pete, which is an update on the condition. apparently doctors meeting with the fbi. what do we know about his injuries from yesterday? >> not much. we don't have many details, just what we've heard from people who have been involved in the case. and apparently we know of fact of course that the authorities say he was wounded in that shootout with police in watertown late thursday night, friday morning. as a matter of fact that's how we was discovered. he was bleeding profusely and they found the blood stains on

the boat and that's what led to him. we know he's wounded. one of the wounds is in his mouth or the throat so it's difficult for him to speak and that suggests that the interrogation won't be starting for a couple of days or whenever it is that he can answer questions. >> it was interesting that jam cavanaugh, the former fbi special agent, he was suggesting if they really need to communicate with him, assuming that otherwise he's doing better, that they might even think about doing it on a keyboard. this is somebody who was a prolific commune cater, prolific tweeter. so presumably even if he didn't have the ability to speak they could find a way to talk to him. >> sure, write notice, they could do that. >> let's talk a little bit about what they're looking for. rogerer, obviously there are some, i guess you could call them restrictions that they have placed on themselves by, you

know, making a decision that they were going to go with the public safety option which to some extent limits them to what information they glean from him that could be used at trial. give us our priority list. what are the questions you're asking him first? well the pub lib safety exception is really key tword eminent threat, asking him if there are additional members that are involved in this plot, there are additional explosive devices, any acts of intelligence of eminent potential plots. once that's done they're going to go into the normal questioning and interrogation. >> i guess part of that normal questioning interrogation and the question everybody wants to answer and doesn't ever give you any satisfaction, clint, is why. and one of the keys here en, and i'll z you to put your former fbi profiler hat on is the

dynamic between the brothers who seems in many ways couldn't be more different. you had dzhokhar who was popular, he was president of his wrestling squad, we saw pictures of anymore in a red bow tie excited to be going to his senior prom in high school got a scholarship to go to college but was a follower of his brother who was pretty disenchanted after ten years offing with here in the united states. in terms of that dynamic and the relationship that could have led to something so deadly, what will they be looking at? well there's a lot of things i think we're going to have to concentrate on the brother, the older brother, the deceased alleged terrorist, his radical zags even his mother suggested he may have come into politics, he may have come into religion we may consider could have led

him to this. but this are other things in the older brother's background, chris. for example, in 2009 he had a girlfriend, he got into a shoving contest, she filed charges against him for domestic battery when he, unlike his younger brother who became a naturalized citizen last year, the 26-year-old when he tried to become a nal citizen zen part of what may have been used to deny him was the batly charge. that would have then stopped him as a boxer from representing the united states in the olympics. so, you know, that was a one-two punch, in you would for the guy. so he life started to break down in 2009, 2010 and then the trip to rush sha may have been the final cue da ra, that might have been the bomb making class that purred him to come back to the

u.s. >> was it in ten that another government which is widely expected to be russian asked him to contact him because they said based op nsk they were concerned that he was becoming a follower of radical islam. >> 2007, actually. the fbi did interview him examining if there was anything about him and looked at the web sites -- >> we have lost him there. clint, let me ask you to pick that up, because obviously they did a thorough investigation. they said they didn't find anything. there are some restrictions on exactly how far they can go in a situation like this, clint. >> well, i've been involved in these international investigations at the request "of another nation and you always know they hold back on you. they never tell you 100% of the

story but we don't either. that's just the game that is played in something like that. so the russians came, asked us to look into this background, we did, provided them some information. now it's time for a quid pro quo. we need to be able to through state, liaison to go back to russia and say, you know what, what was this guy doing those six months. i'm sure the russians know where he was, what he was doing, was he with the chech kneeians learning how to build bombs. it's time for them to man up and help us in the investigation if they want us to help them in the -- the challenge that the catch kneeians may present to him. >> that's the obvious place to go to find out about this six month block of time where his father said he was largely with him. but beyond any help that we might get from the russian

government, how does the u.s. go about finding out what happened during those six months that tamerlan spent abroad. >> we're really going to be dependent on the russians, that you are foreign intelligence and state security service. their willingness to go through their own records an volunteer information with us. as clint says, he's absolutely right, no government gives another government everything they know. if the russians do not cooperate there then will be gaps in our understanding and our knowledge. and the challenge will be how do we fill them in through other means, being liaison services through other countries, whether or not tamerlan had other interaction with people overseas outside of russia to help understand the picture that he and his brother did. >> it does seem though, pete, that sometime around 2010, at least if you're going by the reports that have surfaced from

friends and akwat tenses over the last, you know, couple of days, that beginning about three years ago there did seem to be some sort of change in tamerlan, personality change, a focus change, a disenchantment? that's what people who know him say, that's right and that's the sort of detail that the fbi will be pursuing, trying to figure out who those influences are and try to answer the question question, did someone lead him to this? did he come to it entirely on his own? we've seen each of it happen in different cases. were any of those people outside of the united states. they're questions they're actively pursuing now. >> it's a conversation that will continue to be had because we're seeing the seeds of some of those questions an criticisms coming about miranda rights, if and when they should be given, questions of whether something was missed in this investigation along the way.

we will continue to talk about it. pete, thank you so much, roger and clint thank you as well. the obama invoking its right to deny dzhokhar tsarnaev of his miranda warning for the short term but will that public safety information provide the government with valuable intelligence. we're going to take a deeper look at the role and discuss what's next in all legal aspects of this case after the break. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? departure.

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it. look at the role and discuss

now that dzhokhar tsarnaev is in custody, all eyes are on the administration's decision to question the suspect within the first this hours without reading the miranda rights.

yesterday she explained the reason. >> there is a public safety kpejs in cases of national public safety and acts of terrorism. so the government has that opportunity right now. >> now, this decision is already facing push back from both sides. in a statement today the aclu asked the obama administration to take a different course call the decision un-american. every criminal defendant has a right to be brought before a judge. we must not waiver in our tried and true justice system even in the most difficult time. four members of congress are calling on the president to call him an enemy combatant. >> joining us now an nbc news analyst. good afternoon. we keep hearing the phrase public safety exception. explain to us what it is and how

it's applicable. why would you use it in a situation like this? well, it began in 1984 with the quarrels decision where a police officer asked a question trying to locate a gun. and ultimately the court said, look, there could be risk to officers to the public, immediate risks and we don't want to inhibit people from asking who could save lives out of concerns of the miranda issue. so public safety is a wael-ingrand exception. when you think about terrorism cases where everything about the crime is creating public danger, it's easy to see that the questions about them have plenty of implications for public safety. so this is going to give the administration a fair amount of room too ask about a broad range of topics. the other thing to emphasize is, look -- >> let me stop you there. the most obvious or the most simplistic of phrasing, the questions be, would anybody else involved in this who is still out there, are there any other

explosive devices out there? that's the heart of it because the accomplices of a bomber could be other bombers, the tools of the trade could be other bombs. this that's why it's vitally important. i think the aclu, i understand their concerns but they should be aware of the fact that the administration by announcing publicly their intent to use public safety exception in this question is trying to send a message to the republicans call for enemy come want tant status. we can do all of the questions that's needed under the public safety exception. we don't need to send the guy to ganton mo. >> you have lindsey graham, paul king that say we should look at dzhokhar was an enemy come want tan. what would that mean.

>> it can't apply here. an enemy combatant mean an enemy that's at war. so far we have no indication of what was mote vath these two. so enemy combatant, we don't know mow that there's a foundation for it. but more importantly the justice department has had a lot of success with civilian trials. if they do within aggressive discussion, they can ask every question that a military investigator can ask with respect to -- that's what they'll be able to accomplish. >> let's look at the possibility of where this case may be going. what's your taught about because they want to know if anybody else is involved here, they need to know if there is any ongoing threat, would they consider making a deal? would they go to him and offer him his laf as opposed to the

death penalty in exchange for information? well you've identify exactly what the issue is and that's why it may actually make sense to get this guy to a lawyer sooner than later. he is up deed facing a very serious conviction with a strong prospect of conviction and a real threat of the death penalty. how is he going to head that off? the only way that gives him any shot is to make a deal, say everything he knows, help individuals understand how this came about, where the other leads are, who else may be out there. and if that kind of exchange becomes available it's something i think the prosecutors would consider and something the suspect would have to consider very seriously. >> you go in to him and you lay it out and you don't have been to be a lawyer to see and say they have all this video that clearly seems to be him and his brother. they have we don't know how many thousands or tens of thousands

of still photos that the public submitted. you have people who in that crowd that we're looking at right now lukd him in the eye, saw him, have been able to identify him. i could go on and on. you have the chase, you have potentially whatever information they're able to get as they follow the trail from not just the original two bombs but the things that were thrown out of the car in that police chase. i mean, it's hard to see how this is not a very strong case. >> you just gave a very strong opening statement in terms of the evidence. the prosecution doesn't need his confession to get a conviction, perhaps even to get a death penalty. but he might need to give them his on fegs and the whole truth in order to save his life. >> it is always good to talk to you, my friend. thank you so much for coming on the program chblts thank you. >> there are new reports that officials are warning people in

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that's not much, you think. except it's 2% every year. go to e-trade and find out how much our advice and guidance costs. spoiler alert: it's low. it's guidance on your terms, not ours. e-trade. less for us. more for you. there is some relief for some resz dents in west, texas today who are being allowed to return to certain parts of the town following that devastating deadly explosion at a fertilizer plant on wednesday night. officials confirm hg that the blast killed 14 people, injured 200. for the first time some residents are getting an idea of what remains in their homes. joining me now from west, texas, a correspondent. what do we know about what residents are finding there? >> reporter: it's a five square block area. several hundred residents were allowed back in about an hour

and a half ago. this is a section of town ma may have broken windows but no structural damage. north of that is an area that has been devastated by the plant explosion. you have houses that were completely demolished, others that were blown apart and others that r were crippled by the egs ploegs on wednesday night. >> we have that number, 14 people who died. the morning after the explosion i was talking to the texas congressman who represents west and he was telling me in his conversations with local officials they knew that that was going to go much higher. do they have a good number on how many people are still missing who they can't find? well initially they thought as many as 60 people were missing but they believe that the number is much less than that. they said yesterday they would be surprised if it were one or two more death toll rising by that amount. they said that moest most people have been accounted for.

so the death toll remains at 14 but many of them were the first responders. six volunteer firefighters from the town of west four emts an one off dutyfire fighter from dallas who happens to live here and responded to the fire when he saw it. >> at that actual site, how dangerous is it? as investigate rs go in there and recovery efforts are underway, do they feel like that have a stable station. >> reporter: they do. the federal alcohol firearms administration is in charge. they're taking a very hard look at the pieces left behind at that plant to try to figure out what happened. but they know the main ingleed yent, amoan yum nitrate which is a main component of fertilizer is the catalyst of the explosion, of course the nitrate exploded because it was confined

in a very small area of the plant. youed a fire to that and it's just like the oklahoma city bomb. it's going to explode. it wiped out blocks of the city. >> charles had lok, thanks so much for joining us. boston may be breathing a little easier today but dozens of people obviously still recovering in area hospitals in the injuries from monday's bombings. we'll have a live update on the patients. you're watching msnbc. change makes people nervous.

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both lost their legs in a blast rejoice as paul, seen here in the left of the photo, opened his eyes since the first time of the bombing. we're joined from beth israel medical center where the suspect and the injured are being cared for. what is the latest of those who were injured in that dual bombing blast. >> we still have 11 patients here and the two brothers, one of them is here, one is across town at brigham and woman's hospital. as you recall when the blast happened, ems teams distributed the patients around the hospital to all very fine hospitals evenly, about 25 or 30 each. there was some concern that the bombing suspect would be in the same hospital as some of the victims but it seemed inevitable because of his condition, serious and having lost a lot of blood as we were told by the authorities. so we had to go to one of the top trauma units in the city.

so it was inevitable that me may end up in one. why he came here, unclear. this apparently was the closest hospital to where the capture occurred over in watertown so that may explain why he's here. right now there's not a heavy security presence out front but when we got here last night there were does unos f police officers. the emergency entrance is behind the clinic within the other side of it. and back there it was clear from the presence of the police that we were not allowed to be anywhere nearby. they've set up this area. we were told a half-hour or 45 minutes aegs that there might be a statement coming from the fbi, that hospital media people, administrators were meeting with the fbi to determine if in fact they were going to have anything to say. so far they have not. i don't think we can expect a lot of detail if anything is forth coming because this case obviously is so sensitive. the suspect's condition could play into how he is treated by the criminal justice system as

well. so at this point in updates forth coming. the possibility that there may be one and at this point watching and waiting to see what happens with the suspect and of course the 11 patients still here and the ooh 50 or so who are still in hospitals around the city, including i might add one seven-year-old girl in critical condition. >> i can tell you that literally while you were talking, ron, we got information from a spokesperson at the hospital there that they are expecting to fbi to release some information. you say it could be limited we don't know. but they are going to tweet it out. we are waiting for that information to come directly from the fbi. thank you for that update. i want to bring in dr. david king. he he's a trauma surgeon at the hospital who ran in the marathon that day and who is also treating patients. let me start with the condition of those who are in your hospital.

can you tell me how many are still there and how they're doing. >> yes, we have ten patients currently still in the hospital, five in good condition, five in fair condition. the nooif fair condition are still in intensive care units. >> it does seen though as we've been getting updates from all of the hospitals that slowly but surely all of these folks, shom who have had devastating injuries, all do seem to be making progress. >> it's always difficult to speculate on long term prognosis. every time you think things are going perfectly well, sometimes there are hiccups along the way. it's difficult to predict. but that caveat being said, currently all ten of our patients are looking well and continue to improve every day. >> well that is indeed good news. obviously this would be very personal to you on every level. this is your city, this is your community, but you were also running in the race that day.

>> yeah. this is my community and my hospital and dare i say this is my marathon. so, yes, it smu hits a little bit closer to home than most events. >> you're also, as i understand it, an army reservist who served in iraq and afghanistan. i don't think we need to go into too many of the details of what so many people say they saw that dad being akin to a war zone. >> the wounding patterns are very similar. >> how are you doing, how do you think other people in the hospital, first responders are doing? i ask this question in part. there's been so much praise for the way that paem responded to this but in the days after i was talking to frank keeting who wu governor at the time of the bombing in oklahoma city and he was staying 18 years later there are first responders playerly who are still suffering from

ptsd. we know a lot more about that now than we did then but can you talk a little bit about how you and others are doing as far as you know and what kinds of services are available? sure. you know, as many people have said, me included, we're in the process still in the acute process of healing the surgical and medical wounds of our patients. and, you know, i must say, i think i can speak for most of our team at mass general, not a lot of time available for our own reflection right now. i expect as our patients get better and start getting discharged we'll start reflecting more and probably, you know come to grips with exactly what the event was and what it means to each of us as health care providers and how

we'll deal with that. >> it does have to have an impact long term. this is something about events like this, as horrible as they are and as catastrophic as they are that tend to bind people in a way because you have shared something that is so life altering. >> i think that's absolutely true. you know, in the military, you experience such extraordinary events, those events which you would never see or experience in any other way in your entire life, and the bonds that soldiers create at war are well known and well described and are timeless. i expect that the bonds that were created amongst health care providers and first responders on monday will be no different than that. i expect we'll be also timeless. >> and i've said this before that the day after the race as i was visiting coffee shops and

restaurants and a lot of people still had on the yellow and blue shirts identifying them as people no ran in the marathon, typically in the day after the marathon you're talk about your time, did you do your personal best, did you finish. that was not the conversation obviously the day after. they were wearing the sirts r shirts in support and solidarity but they were also measuring their time to how close it was to when the bombs exploded and trying to come to grips with if i had run a little faster, i'd run a little slower, could it have been me. and i'm just, i don't know how this, you know, will affect people in the long term. but in the short term when you reflect on that day and what happened to you and what you saw at your hospital, what did it mean to you to have this manhunt finished yesterday?

well, let me just say there's two levels, two ways for me to answer that question. first off, i've had the same thoughts about faster or slower or what if i had cramped and run a lot slower and so on. i crossed the finish line roughly an hour before the first bomb went off and i was hanging around the athlete recovery area for quite some time, about 45 minutes before i met up with my family and my entire family was at the race course and walked right past where the point where blast one occurred. so as i reflect back on that, certainly i feel very blessed, but i have that conversation in my own head about what if i had run slower or what if i had just hung out in the recovery area a little bit longer, might my family have been in the area when the blast went off. and certainly those same

discussions are occurring all over the hospital. there's lots of folks maybe who didn't run the marathon but certainly who were there as volunteers aenz at the medical tent that's located 100 feet from where the first blast went off. they're having those same discussions in their head about what if i was outside the tent towards the finish line helping someone when the bomb went off. i hear those discussions happening all around me in the hospital and in the after tearia and outside the hospital. >> did it give you some level of, i don't know, relief, whatever, just knowing that one suspect had been killed and the other is in custody. >> you know, i would never, i would never say that i'm pleased that any human being has died, but i would also be lying if i

didn't say that there's some measure of reassurance of safety knowing that both of these terrorists are gone now or one is gone and one is in custody. >> dr. david king, well, first of all thank you so much not just for being with us and sharing your story but for all you doid that day an continue to do for those patients who were caught up in this madness. thank you so much. thank you. >> the citizens of boston emerged from their homes last night and they celebrated in the streets after confirmation that dft had been captured. what's next for the suspect at the center of the marathon bombings? we'll talk to michael sullivan. [ male announcer ] this is betsy. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪

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condition of the remaining suspect in the bombings, dzhokhar tsarnaev is in serious condition and also that he has two separate wounds, one to the neck or face that may be preventing him from communicating with police. we are waiting for that update. >> in the meantime there are slowly some signs of boston getting back to normal. the red sox plays today. some of the political campaigning is underway. joining us now is former u.s. attorney and former fbi agent michael sullivan. thanks very much for joining us. you're welcome. >> let me get your reaction if i can. it was i guess what you would call and you always hesitate to use positive words when you have a devastating situation but a

successful conclusion, people were back playing baseball and singing "sweet caroline" today. how would you assess where your city is right now. >> certainly relieve that the second suspect has been captured. i think obviously continue to be concerned and worried about those people that were seriously hurt and those folks will get a tremendous amount of support from the city of boston and people throughout the commonwealth and throughout the country. we feel saddened for the loss of lives and those families will remain in our prior. the city of boston is a resilient community. we'll come together and help but at the same time we recognize we're going to move on in way that people would expect us to. >> not surprisingly already some questions are being raised about decisions that are being made about what happened in the past and so you have a couple of unique perspectives here both

from your time at the atf and as a u.s. attorney. let me ask you as a former u.s. attorney about that debate that is ongoing about whether or not dzhokhar tsarnaev should be tried to civilian criminal court, should be ma ran diezed should be subject to mail tear interrogation. how would you like to see this going forward? i would hope it's a thoughtful analysis in what makes the best sense in terms of protecting our national interest and our national security. if it makes better sense in terms of designating him as an enemy come wantant then we should be doing that in it's in the interest of security. if e has information that is going to enhance our national security then he should be designated as enemy combatant. >> do you believe that legally he could fit into that category. >> certainly, particularly if

they've uncovered evidence in the course of this investigation from monday through today that ties him into an international terrorists organization. if there's evidence along those lines that suggests that he has some powerful intel value to the united states, into our allies then we should designate him as an enemy combatant. if he doesn't, then he should be charged in an court. the crimes were horrific. it was a terrorist act, no question about it and he should be looking at the serious consequences including up to death. >> there is an ongoing debate about that. i also want to tell you that we just got this information that we expected to get, some formal charges filed today but it looks like prosecutors will not finish their work on the charges on dzhokhar tsarnaev today. more likely that is going to

happen tomorrow. as they look at the charges they're also looking to question him and obviously to your point and to the point of how he is treated, the question of whether anyone else is involved, could there be some sort of larger organization. one of the keys of that can be analyzing the bomb components, not just the two bombs that were on site, but the ones apparently explosive devices that were thrown from the car in that police chase overnight. using that expertise, how important could that be? well it could be critically important. it's a treasure trove of evidence. the fbi has expertise in this case they gained during the iraq and afgan war, they have examined these explosive devices. you want to see if there's any particular signature that would

tie these to other bomb makers that are in intel, to the law enforcement in military agencies. that could be helpful and powerful. in terms of his value from an intel perspective and whether or not he should be as a combatant. beyond that it will be helpful in terms of criminal prosecution. >> i want to come full circle. as people watched there and there was a celebration, there's obviously an ongoing sadness, a sense of frustration that has happened and the desire to help. that's one thing that will characterize americans. aisle never forget after 9/11 the people came from all over the country who wanted to give blood. they wanted do something. from your perch there very near where all this happened. what can people do who want to reach out? >> i think one thing they can do is donate. you know, the injuries were

horrific for so many of these people, innocent bystanders, runners doing the most innocent thing in the world, celebrating patriots' day, having a joyful day. and in prayers, offers of support. cards. you know, people would welcome that and find great comfort. if people would just send cards and notes of sympathy and concern and well wishes in terms of a full and speedy recovery. you know, i'm sure the victims and the victims' families would find great comfort in that. >> michael sullivan who is a senate candidate, former u.s. attorney, former atf, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. >> you're welcome. thank you. >> to his point, one of the things that we learned today, there is that photograph of the young man who virtually had two

of his legs blown off and you see him in the wheelchair being taken to the ambulance and being in the hospital. it turns out he had no insurance. and obviously his medical expenses will go into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, so a fund has been set up to pay for his medical expenses. and as a side note to that or maybe not a side note at all but something that was critically important in this investigation, as badly injured as he was, he was able to communicate to investigators who were trying to identify the bombers. he actually had a very good identification of the one who he saw, and that helped them as they were going through this amazing amount of videos and pictures, that they had that very specific description. so that is one of the funds that has been set up and that people are donating to. we are also learning more about the suspects, the older brother, tamer la eerlan tsarnaev, why h

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formal terrorism charges against one of the captured terrorist bombers, zocor tsarnaev won't likely be filed until tomorrow. there's been a delay. the 19-year-old was captured last night in the backyard of a watertown, massachusetts, resident. now, new video, brand new just in to nbc news from